What does it take to really call a team a dynasty? Back-to-back championships? Or does a team have to win three in a row or three in four years?
In the NHL, dynasties are recognized in the Hockey Hall of Fame and, to date, there are nine inductees. With back-to-back Stanley Cup Final appearances, both the Pittsburgh Penguins and Detroit Red Wings have set the ground work for what could one day be an enshrinement of their own.
After dropping this year's final, critics are starting to call into question whether the 2008 championship-winning Wings can maintain their league dominance. Bill Houlihan from Abel to Yzerman believes they can stay on course.
"Last year was a bump in the road caused by a confluence of injuries, an inept commissioner's pathetic pandering to NBC and some horrific officiating," said Houlihan. "Am I exaggerating? A bit, but not too much. No team in the league - and that definitely includes Pittsburgh - has a stronger core of players, a better organizational mindset, track record or team of scouts."
Looking down the road, the Red Wings have their future captain in Henrik Zetterberg locked up long-term to go along with Pavel Datsyuk and Johan Franzen, whereas the Pens will take the ice with Marc-Andre Fleury, Evgeni Malkin, Sydney Crosby and Jordan Staal for at least the next four years.
Because of the aforementioned Malkin and Crosby, two superstars that anchor the promising franchise, Derek Rocco of The Pensblog rests assured that it is his team that is in a better position to reign supreme years down the road.
"Think about the days of Mario (Lemieux) and (Jaromir) Jagr. Mario was way older and established when Jagr first started. This is not the case for Malkin and Crosby. They have both developed together and learned some big time lessons together," said Rocco. "If Malkin and Crosby are both healthy in the next 10 years, and the Pens are in the playoffs, are you going to bet against them? That is what a dynasty is; knowing that every year there isn't only a chance, but probability."
Meeting in back-to-back Cup finals would have been enough to brew up a rivalry of sorts between any two teams, but add a missed handshake, a tablespoon of Marian Hossa and a pinch of Ty Conklin, and this has escalated quickly into one of the most heated rivalries in professional sports.
If either of the last two years were any indication, the only thing standing in the way of either of these teams stringing a few championships together may be each other. But Houlihan and his Pensblog counterpart both believe there is the obvious obstacle paired with a few unconventional road blocks.
"Injuries are the only thing that can stop Pittsburgh," said Rocco, "Or if someone turns into Gordon Bombay from Mighty Ducks II; when he goes all corporate. Other than that, (the) Pens should be hanging around."
Houlihan has a more elaborate opinion.
"Injuries and more meddling from Gary Bettman (could interfere). He's dead-set it and we've come to grips with that. In fact, it's probably become an internal rallying cry within the Wings organization."
"Is it a conspiracy? No. It's too obvious for that. It's an agenda foisted by a simple man who has been continually spurned by the Detroit franchise. They've circumvented his cap, denied his fantasy boy (Crosby) on his first attempt at a Cup, refused to play nice during the lockout and said bad things about him behind his back."
It's easy to see that the rivalry on the ice has led to fans from their respective teams disliking the other. Which is why both prominent bloggers believe that the 2009-10 season will see the demise of their opponents.
"They have already had their run. You have about a five-year window, and the Wings did well, but now the salary cap is going to be catching up with them and a lot of the old guard is starting to age and breakdown," said Rocco. "Wouldn't it be funny if they never win again, and people start calling it the curse of Hossa?
"The Wings are always going to be there, but they need a goalie. Chris Osgood was exposed in Game 7, and not that he was all that bad, but he still needed to be better."
"(Pittsburgh doesn't have a chance of a dynasty) because their two star players are making $8.7 million apiece while Detroit's tandem of Zetterberg and Datsyuk rake in at least two million less, per player. Is it just a fiscal issue? No. It's character," said Houlihan. "Detroit has character up and down the roster. Pittsburgh is 'led' by a captain and sidekick who are eating up huge amounts of a cap number that's only going to get smaller. Only 46 Tuesdays left until the Cup comes home to Hockeytown."
For now though, we have to wait the 197 days until Jan. 31, 2010 when the Wings travel to Mellon Arena and these two dynasties in waiting reignite their remarkable rivalry.
Current Comments
13 comments so far (post your own)Well, we all know how I feel about Marc-Andre Fleury. And how he feels about his mother.
http://www.thegoodpoint.com/hockey/jun09/marc-andre-fleury-motherlover.html
As for the dynasty question? The Pens roster looks way more prepared to usher in a mainstay at the top... but the Wings have been doing just that for years. Who's to say it will stop now?
Posted by Austin Kent on Thursday, July 16, 2009 @ 1:50am
Great article. But if you want to talk about cap management and building a dynasty; just look at how the two teams handled Marian Hossa (both with the same result: him jumping ship after losing in the SCF).
Pittsburgh: Traded away 3 players (all young) to get him at the deadline. Offered him a truckload of money only to see him go somewhere else after being on the team for 3 months.
Detroit: Signed him without having to give up anything. Had him for an entire season. Lost him when he refused to take the discounted salary offered.
Detroit is the absolute benchmark for not giving up your future to boost your present. There is no better front office in all of sports. When the cap goes down next year, and you have $17.4 million wrapped around two players, we'll see what kind of foundation the Pens still have left
Posted by Animal Drew on Thursday, July 16, 2009 @ 12:35pm
Last time I checked 6 Stanley cup final apperances in 13 years classifies as a dynasty, The wings time at the top as done. P.S. dirty pic
Posted by Tim on Thursday, July 16, 2009 @ 1:14pm
Great assembly of viewpoints, Pope. I think the Pittsburgh Penguins, in their present state, are more of a concrete representation of what can happen to a last-place team afflicted by insolvency. The Penguins worked through the draft and free agency, and that's where I must commend GM Ray Shero.
As for the Red Wings, I don't think they can be called a dynasty in the most honest definition of the word--unless we want to count division titles. They are certainly the most successful team in the league, but 'dynasty' is a strong word that should be dedicated to a consecutive cup-winning squad.
That said, I think it's great that the NHL witnesses a new team hoist the cup perennially. I've been adamant about league contraction to increase the concentration of talent among teams; however, if this amount of parity can persist, the game's exposure and competitive level will be paramount.
And for that, I hope no team is endowed with the title dynasty.
Posted by Anthony Lopopolo on Thursday, July 16, 2009 @ 2:55pm
Well if I shake my magic eight ball and it might be able to tell me who has a better chance at becoming a dynasty (if either). But with the Wings troubles with the cap going into this season and Drew\'s point about the Pens having over 17 million being locked up in two players, it should be interesting to see what happens come Jan 31st.
Or will it now become more entertaining watch the Wings vs Hawks (with Hossa and Kopecky) or the Pens vs Flyers (Sid vs Pronger)??
Posted by Pope on Thursday, July 16, 2009 @ 10:15pm
Yah good story, I really hate the wing though. In four years a new dynasty will be born, I think you now what team that will be right? Oh ya buddy the Leafs are going to be kicking ass and takin' trophies!
Posted by Chad Heroux on Thursday, July 16, 2009 @ 10:43pm
I think the hawks are going to be a good team to watch this year and in years to come. I wish I had NHL center ice so I could watch them though. Hey Poopie (that’s right I’m bringing it back!) what’s your take on the leafs situation?
Oh and what happend to your goalie career?
Posted by Chad Heroux on Saturday, July 18, 2009 @ 2:00pm
Jeez Drew. Your opinions are again useless. While the Wings have been a dynasty, I cant help but to compare them to the Yankees, pre 2001. The Pens could be compared to the Red Sox. We all remember 2004 and the Sox huge comeback. That was the Pens this season. The Wings are going to be a thing of the past. I mean, who's going to be in net?!
Posted by Big Rich on Saturday, July 18, 2009 @ 6:55pm
Big - I like the MLB comparison but in all reality how long have people been saying this about the Wings? since 97? Are the Pens up and coming and do they have a great core to their team? Of course and I don't think you can find anyone to argue that, but to say the Wings are going to be a thing of the past; that just sounds like the same thing people have been saying in...well the past.
Posted by Pope on Saturday, July 18, 2009 @ 10:27pm
Make no mistake, the fact that Malkin, Crosby, Fleury and Staal are all so good (and all so young) bodes extremely well for the franchise.
If the team can put together another championship season next year (close to it), look out. Think about it, these kids are no strangers to the history books, if they win two in a row, they know as well as you and I do that an historic legacy is in the cards and they'll stick together to do it. Crosby, Malkin, Fleury and Staal + several more years of growth and experience = dynasty.
But, if for some reason the wheels come off next season, they have just as likely a chance of splitting up as any other team and we'll look back at this conversation and laugh.
The Detroit Red Wings are the San Antonio Spurs of the NHL. The question marks that surround Pittsburgh don't surround Detroit because the latter has answered them countless times before.
The only thing that can stop the Wings from being a dynasty is the Penguins, and the only thing that can stop the Pens from being one is themselves (which happens more than you'd like to think).
Posted by Austin Kent on Sunday, July 19, 2009 @ 2:35am
The old saying goes - If you win a championship you had a good season, if you win back-to-back you have a great team.
It may just be one of those stupid cliche sayings but does it really hold true here? Do the Wings have a good team or did they just play really well last season?
And where do the Pens sit in this? Did they just get past the Wings because of the bitter taste in their mouths because of last year and Hossa?
Posted by Pope on Sunday, July 19, 2009 @ 9:55am
Like the article and both teams have done a lot to secure many playoff bound seasons.
I find it kind of interesting that their have been several Detroit players that have jumped ship, most notable Hossa (which could turn out to be a blessing in disguise.)
Pittsburgh too has felt the free agency crunch losing both Gill and Scuderi, though not huge offensive threats they both are physical in the defensive end.
I also think that Chicago has done a lot to make sure they will be part of the conversation over as well.
Posted by Koz on Sunday, July 19, 2009 @ 12:46pm
@Koz - Chicago, of course, with Marian Hossa. Hahah.
@Pope - Your cliche asks some interesting questions. Both of these teams were tested pretty thoroughly in the playoffs and we very well could have seen them fall out of the playoffs altogether (and we wouldn't be having this conversation). That they made it to the eventual final is nice, but it isn't completely reassuring if you're talking about having a stranglehold on the NHL.
Posted by Austin Kent on Sunday, July 19, 2009 @ 1:11pm